Viewership of the movie “Conclave,” which depicts the choosing of a new pope, has spiked in the days since Pope Francis died. But how much of the Academy Award winner is accurate to the real event about to take place?
The Rev. Bryan Pham, a Jesuit priest and associate director for Catholic Studies at Gonzaga University in Spokane, Washington, told Fox News Digital he believes the movie was accurate according to the “timeline and sequence of events of how to handle the death of a pope, the relaying of information, the gathering of the cardinals, and general procedures of getting the new pope elected.”
Pham, who was a graduate student in Rome during the last conclave that elected Pope Francis in 2013, also said the “side conversations among the cardinals as they try to identify the challenges and the needs of the church when considering the qualities of the next pope” rang true.
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“Although, in real-life, these conversations happen in what is called ‘general congregation’ and is much more formal,” he said. “But of course, cardinals are also mere mortals, so gossips and side-conversations do happen.”
“Conclave,” which came out last year and won the Oscar in March for best adapted screenplay, stars Ralph Fiennes as the cardinal in charge of the conclave after a fictional pope dies. It also stars Stanley Tucci, Isabella Rossellini and John Lithgow.
Pham said the real conclave was an “extraordinary experience,” adding that some parts of the movie sensationalized the centuries-old ritual.
“Where ‘Conclave’ was clearly a Hollywood movie that wants to be sensational, create potential scandals for shock value in order to make money and perhaps perpetuate the anti-Catholic sentiment (especially in the United States)” was “everything else that played into the negative aspect of the Catholic mystique that perpetuate the Catholic Church as primitive and byzantine,” he said.
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“That said, I thought the movie was done well,” Pham said. “There were beautiful imageries, and the cinematography was excellent. The actors were also top-notch. I only wish Isabella Rossellini had a more prominent role (or lines); she is such an accomplished actor to be cast in such a relatively minor role.”
Fox News contributor Raymond Arroyo, who has personally witnessed three conclaves and is heading back to Rome for this one, said viewership of the movie spiked because it’s “in the zeitgeist. Anytime you have a pope die, you know, the visuals, the rituals of the church and the ceremony that accompanies the election of a pope is fascinating.”
Amazon Prime made “Conclave” available for free on its streaming service on Monday after the pope died.
Arroyo said he thinks a superior movie to “Conclave” is 1968’s “The Shoes of the Fisherman,” starring Anthony Quinn, which also depicts a conclave and is “more gripping and dramatic and interesting.”
Arroyo agreed with Pham that the movie gets “some of the details of the ritual, which is evocative and beautiful and fascinating” right.
“And frankly, that’s the best part of ‘Conclave,’ which is otherwise a very boring, draggy movie,” Arroyo said.
He noted that “the writing of the ballot, the going up and swearing before Michelangelo’s last judgment,” raising their ballots and making an oath to the last judgment, placing the ballots in a vessel and having them counted by counters was all accurate.
“They count votes, and then they run a needle and string through them,” he continued. “So, all of that is correct. What’s wrong is kind of the surrounds of the thing. The politics, the conversations playing out. It was very cartoonish, melodramatic dialogue.”
“None of that happens in that way,” he said, “and the intrigue, I wish it were that interesting and fascinating, all the intrigues and people dying, having kids out of wedlock and all that, that’s not happening.
Arroyo said all the potential choices for pope are already vetted.
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“That’s one dysfunctional Vatican,” he joked of the movie. “That’s all I can say on the screen. And the real one is dysfunctional enough. It doesn’t need any assistance.”
He said that during the conclave, the cardinals are all housed in a hotel across the street from St. Peter’s Basilica.
“And they would, as depicted in the movie, if memory serves, they get on a bus, and they take them over to the Sistine Chapel, and they go in, and they’re locked in for the day. You know they’re basically locked in.”
Arroyo said that tradition goes back to one conclave when the cardinals weren’t able to elect a pope for a year, “and the conclave kept dragging on, and they hadn’t elected a pope, so they decided to lock them in the place and not give them food or water, pressure them to make a decision.”
He said that while the traditions and ancient rituals “themselves are beautiful,” why they’re done is “always more fascinating.”
“I thought the movie ‘Conclave’ exploited the church’s visuals to drive home a message and a version of the church that just isn’t on point,” he said. “I mean, when the nuns [were] lecturing all the cardinals while they’re eating, that would never happen. I mean it doesn’t happen. And look, I know a lot of cardinals. I’ve interviewed a lot them. I know what happens, before the conclave, during the conclave, after the conclave. This is just not reality.”
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He agreed with Pham that the business of meeting with the candidates “and getting comfortable with the man who might be pope or at least the major candidates” usually happens at dinners and other events before they are locked in during the conclave.
Arroyo said he will head to Rome during the nine days of mourning for the pope.
“Those nine days are when all the business of the conclave is really done,” he explains. “By the time they go into the conclave, they pretty much have at least a top one and two candidates that they’re moving toward.”
He said the movie clearly had “great production designers and costumers who tried to match the locations and the places, and they didn’t get that wrong. I mean, the Sistine Chapel is the Sistine Chapel.”
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But he said they missed “the heart of” what it’s all about.
The “biggest error” of the film, from Arroyo’s perspective, is when Ralph Fiennes’ character in the film, who is tasked with running the conclave, preaches that “doubt is at the heart of faith, that we must have doubt to believe. Well, this is absurd.”
Arroyo said the concept “runs counter to everything the church has ever taught. You know, Jesus didn’t say follow me in doubt. He said follow me and believe. So that’s what you’re called to do. And no, doubt is not part of that.”
He continued, “The wonder of miracles is that, you know, they defy reality, they defy natural law. That’s the wonder of it: it shatters reality in some ways. But there’s no doubt involved in that. It either happened or didn’t happen. But if it happens, it wakes a lot of people up, and that’s what happened initially. And that’s why these people gave their lives for what Jesus said and for Christ himself. They gave their life because he rose again.”
“That idea of doubt being at the heart of faith and at the heart of the church is a stupid one,” he said, “and one that people, I think a certain cast of mind, would like the church to pursue that path.”
The movie, he said, “cast a certain ideological vision that they imagined the church should be, and it was an open, it’s basically an open church, cut off from the very traditions that they celebrated and that the movie profits off of.”
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“The movie sought to propagate a version of Catholicism cut off from the very traditions and rituals that the movie celebrates, holds up and made a lot of money,” he said.
